I'd rather spend my efforts looking for a real letterbox. As for
hiding them goes, I'd prefer spending my efforts there hiding them in
locations where you are allowed to put letterboxes--or at least
nobody has told us not to! There's certainly plenty of areas for
hiding letterboxes, and I don't think we've hit rock bottom in
finding new places to locate them.
But if you must force people into beautiful areas such as national
parks to 'find' letterboxes, there are still other alternatives--some
are even legal! =)
But, first, while I'm not trying to encourage such practice, it's a
fact that many people--when they want to hide a letterbox where they
aren't allowed to--will turn it into a mystery box so it's location
isn't so obvious. Or they might not post it to the talk list at all
and keep it a "word-of-mouth" kind of clue to make the clue more
difficult to aquire. A well-hidden letterbox isn't going to be
discovered by accident, and the only way the property owner or
authorities will know about it is if you plaster the clue for the
world to see.
There are also more ethical ways of 'hiding' letterboxes where you
shouldn't. My 'Where's Jack?' and 'Run for the Border' letterboxes
are great examples. In the first, I have people running into three
different Jack In the Box restaurants counting tables, chairs,
ceiling tiles, etc. which, when you use it to fill in the blanks of
the clue, leads to a letterbox that isn't located in any of those
locations. But I still make people GO to those locations if they
want the letterbox. The 'Run for the Border' is a similar deal where
I have people running around to three different Taco Bells counting
whatever fits my fancy which ultimately leads to a letterbox that's
not at any of those locations.
So if you want to hide a 'Yosemite' letterbox, make people count the
number of trees in a certain area. Or take certain letters from a
sign in the part which ultimately leads to a real, hidden letterbox
just outside of the national park.
And finally, there are some places where you'd LOVE to hide a
letterbox, but you think there's nowhere to 'hide' it. You'd be
surprised at some of the clever boxes out there hiding letterboxes
where you'd never imagine it was possible! There are boxes using
velcro, magnets, pulley systems, camaflauge, and fake rocks. Some
boxes have strings attached to them with a stick tied to the string
so the box can be hidden in otherwise inaccesible crags yet looks
totally natural. And with the advent of micro-boxes, it's possible
to hide full-fleged letterboxes where it was never possible before.
(I'm still pretty proud of the letterbox I hid in a bookstore without
telling anyone that worked there!)
Rather than hide a virtual-but-not-virtual-letterbox, I'd suggest
giving 'thinking outside the box' a try. The creative and ingenious
hiding places people have created for their boxes is truely
staggering, and those boxes are definitely worth the effort!
But back to national parks. The park service generally frowns on
hiding letterboxes in the Great Outdoors. Perhaps by talking to them
and getting a discussion with them they might be willing to hide one
behind the counter of the visitor center. In the park and perfect
okay and legal! =) Or maybe you can hide a microbox in a restroom,
under a trash can, or some other publically accessible place yet not
be in the Great Outdoors. There are lots of options--you just need
to keep an open mind! =)
-- Ryan
Idea for a different letterbox concept
8 messages in this thread |
Started on 2003-03-05
Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: Eric Polk (ericpolk@attbi.com) |
Date: 2003-03-05 22:34:19 UTC-08:00
When I read about the letterbox incident in Davis,
I began to think about places that we can't put letterboxes (e.g. National
Parks, some private properties, etc.)
We have a few virtual letterboxes that are done
using the Internet. I am working on a concept idea for a sort of hybrid
between a physical box and the virtual box.
The idea is to lay out clues exactly as if the
letterboxer were going to find a physical box. Instead of finding a box,
the letterboxer will have to find some information that can only be found if he
or she actually went to the site. Examples of this information would be:
What does it say on a certain sign, what color is some object at the location,
describe an object, etc.
When this information is found, the owner of the
box would be e-mailed with the information and would provide a stamped image
that represents the site found.
That is the basic concept. There are some
points that I am kind of fuzzy on and wanted to ask the opinion of the letterbox
experts here.
In terms of verification, I was thinking of either
a strictly written verification (i.e. an e-mail describing the requested info)
or photo verification. The photo verification would be absolute proof that
the site had been visited but I'm sure that the honor system would work with all
of you fine people. : ) The photo verification has a negative aspect
in that people who have non-digital cameras would have to develop their film
before sending in the verification.
The second area I wanted to ask about was the
stamped image. I had two basic ideas for this. The first is to have
a downloadable image of the stamp online. The link would be provided by
the box's owner upon verification that the site had been reached. The
second option is to have the image stamped on a piece of paper and snail-mailed
to the box finder. The letterboxer could then paste the image directly
into his or her journal.
I was also tinkering with the idea of virtual log
book. I was thinking that perhaps a Yahoo! Group that would not be listed
or with closed access. When someone finds the box, the owner will (along
with the stamp image) provide a link or access to the group. That way it
would be much like a real letterbox in that only those who find it can see who's
been there. In addition, the Yahoo! Group will allow finders to upload an
image of their stamp.
Good idea? Bad idea? Has this been done
before and found to not work? Anything I should change or scrap?
Anything I should add?
I welcome any feedback you have on this, positive
or constructive.
Thanks!
___________________________
Eric Polk
Eric Polk
Re: [LbNA] Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: (mindizney@aol.com) |
Date: 2003-03-06 06:54:42 UTC-05:00
wow... interesting idea! Now my wheels in my head are turning with all the possible uses.... like our National Parks for instance!!!!
I definitely think you should run with it!
Music Woman
I definitely think you should run with it!
Music Woman
Re: Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: rscarpen (RiskyNil@hotmail.com) |
Date: 2003-03-06 17:31:07 UTC
Re: Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: Matt (ratpatrolhq@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2003-03-06 18:56:53 UTC
I'm all for coming up with new twists on the letterbox idea. If you
can figure out a way to make the semi-virtual letterbox work, go for it.
However, I have a love-hate relationship with the computer I use every
day at work and with the "virtual" world of the internet. One reason I
like letterboxing is that it uses the internet to spread clues but
otherwise doesn't involve the computer. There are no electronic
gadgets when I'm out hunting a box, just a scrap of paper, a compass,
hiking boots and trees.
Personally, I like the "real" letterboxes and "real" logbooks where
you can see the personal stamps and handwriting of other visitors
instead of just the bare bones of posts on a message board.
Also, I like the idea of a letterbox that maintains itself. I don't
need to respond to emails about it, or do much of anything to it
unless I happen to be in the area and want to check on it to see who's
visited.
Matt the Rat
Chicago
can figure out a way to make the semi-virtual letterbox work, go for it.
However, I have a love-hate relationship with the computer I use every
day at work and with the "virtual" world of the internet. One reason I
like letterboxing is that it uses the internet to spread clues but
otherwise doesn't involve the computer. There are no electronic
gadgets when I'm out hunting a box, just a scrap of paper, a compass,
hiking boots and trees.
Personally, I like the "real" letterboxes and "real" logbooks where
you can see the personal stamps and handwriting of other visitors
instead of just the bare bones of posts on a message board.
Also, I like the idea of a letterbox that maintains itself. I don't
need to respond to emails about it, or do much of anything to it
unless I happen to be in the area and want to check on it to see who's
visited.
Matt the Rat
Chicago
Re: Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: Sir Balthazar (neovolatile@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2003-03-06 19:07:31 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "rscarpen"
wrote:
> I have people running around to three different Taco Bells counting
> whatever fits my fancy which ultimately leads to a letterbox that's
> not at any of those locations.
And Taco Bell, of all places, Ryan! I know, nobody SAID you had to
eat there. Still...*grin* We are still working on that one. My
daughter says that one of the TB (interesting abbreviation) employees
knows "kinda where the box is." Right.
> So if you want to hide a 'Yosemite' letterbox, make people count
the
> number of trees in a certain area. Or take certain letters from a
> sign in the part which ultimately leads to a real, hidden letterbox
> just outside of the national park.
I was thinking about one out at Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant but
thought that 1) very few letterboxers would have access, and 2) I
might get shot by a very jumpy security force if it looked as though
I were planting anything suspicious. It is a lovely place but not
worth it. Now something out at the Energy Information Center is
doable...
> There are boxes using
> velcro, magnets, pulley systems, camaflauge, and fake rocks.
Thanks for the ideas! I am seriously thinking about molding some fake
rocks now out of Fimo.
> (I'm still pretty proud of the letterbox I hid in a bookstore
without
> telling anyone that worked there!)
Yeah, and look where that got you! There are now at least six
letterboxers due to that one box.
> Perhaps by talking to them
> and getting a discussion with them they might be willing to hide
one
> behind the counter of the visitor center. In the park and perfect
> okay and legal! =) Or maybe you can hide a microbox in a
restroom,
Nope, that is where we hide the guns. Whoops, I told!
I am thinking of a series for local tattoo parlors. Afterall, in
Dartmoor you just go into the pub and ask the barman for the
letterbox. It is not too much of a stretch to do the same in tattoo
parlors.
Also looking at doing a series for the Pismo Clams and Los Osos
Bears. These are large "statues" and are prominently displayed.
Lately I have been having fun carving personal stamps for folks.
Designing the stamps is every bit as much of a hoot as finding some
of them. I will post some of them up in the files section. I would be
interested in seeing what others are using as personal stamps.
Please, feel free to post up there, too.
Sir Balthazar
Grover Beach, CA
wrote:
> I have people running around to three different Taco Bells counting
> whatever fits my fancy which ultimately leads to a letterbox that's
> not at any of those locations.
And Taco Bell, of all places, Ryan! I know, nobody SAID you had to
eat there. Still...*grin* We are still working on that one. My
daughter says that one of the TB (interesting abbreviation) employees
knows "kinda where the box is." Right.
> So if you want to hide a 'Yosemite' letterbox, make people count
the
> number of trees in a certain area. Or take certain letters from a
> sign in the part which ultimately leads to a real, hidden letterbox
> just outside of the national park.
I was thinking about one out at Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant but
thought that 1) very few letterboxers would have access, and 2) I
might get shot by a very jumpy security force if it looked as though
I were planting anything suspicious. It is a lovely place but not
worth it. Now something out at the Energy Information Center is
doable...
> There are boxes using
> velcro, magnets, pulley systems, camaflauge, and fake rocks.
Thanks for the ideas! I am seriously thinking about molding some fake
rocks now out of Fimo.
> (I'm still pretty proud of the letterbox I hid in a bookstore
without
> telling anyone that worked there!)
Yeah, and look where that got you! There are now at least six
letterboxers due to that one box.
> Perhaps by talking to them
> and getting a discussion with them they might be willing to hide
one
> behind the counter of the visitor center. In the park and perfect
> okay and legal! =) Or maybe you can hide a microbox in a
restroom,
Nope, that is where we hide the guns. Whoops, I told!
I am thinking of a series for local tattoo parlors. Afterall, in
Dartmoor you just go into the pub and ask the barman for the
letterbox. It is not too much of a stretch to do the same in tattoo
parlors.
Also looking at doing a series for the Pismo Clams and Los Osos
Bears. These are large "statues" and are prominently displayed.
Lately I have been having fun carving personal stamps for folks.
Designing the stamps is every bit as much of a hoot as finding some
of them. I will post some of them up in the files section. I would be
interested in seeing what others are using as personal stamps.
Please, feel free to post up there, too.
Sir Balthazar
Grover Beach, CA
Re: Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: Eoghan (eoghan@sharawadgi.com) |
Date: 2003-03-07 01:23:54 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Polk"
wrote:
> Good idea? Bad idea? Has this been done before and found to not
work? Anything I should change or scrap? Anything I should add?
>
> I welcome any feedback you have on this, positive or constructive.
>
> Thanks!
> ___________________________
> Eric Polk
This idea has been pretty well developed in the geocaching community.
An increasing number of caches are 'virtual'.
You can check out the main geocaching site, www.geocaching.com, to
see how the idea was implemented there. Once a stash is "virtual" it
doesn't really matter whether you call it a 'box' or a 'cache' since
it's really neither. You might also check out the geocaching forums
(follow the 'discuss geocaching' link from the main page). Many
people have set up ways to verify virtual finds using web-based
submittals or email auto-responders. Your problem may have already
been solved by someone. It would be pretty easy to have a stamp image
(.gif or .jpg file) attached as part of a reply email. You'd only
need to find someone who's set up a virtual cache responder.
wrote:
> Good idea? Bad idea? Has this been done before and found to not
work? Anything I should change or scrap? Anything I should add?
>
> I welcome any feedback you have on this, positive or constructive.
>
> Thanks!
> ___________________________
> Eric Polk
This idea has been pretty well developed in the geocaching community.
An increasing number of caches are 'virtual'.
You can check out the main geocaching site, www.geocaching.com, to
see how the idea was implemented there. Once a stash is "virtual" it
doesn't really matter whether you call it a 'box' or a 'cache' since
it's really neither. You might also check out the geocaching forums
(follow the 'discuss geocaching' link from the main page). Many
people have set up ways to verify virtual finds using web-based
submittals or email auto-responders. Your problem may have already
been solved by someone. It would be pretty easy to have a stamp image
(.gif or .jpg file) attached as part of a reply email. You'd only
need to find someone who's set up a virtual cache responder.
Re: Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: ksaul27 (ksaul27@paperdance.com) |
Date: 2003-04-04 05:25:45 UTC
First of all, sorry for my slow response. I've been away from the
letterboxing community for a bit and just now saw your post. I've
been thinking along the same lines for a couple weeks. I've actually
started a web site to do it, and was coming back to see if anyone was
interested in joining me! I did a search on 'virtual' and saw your
email. Have you done anymore thinking about it?
The reason I'm doing this is I no longer feel comfortable hiding
man-made objects in natural places. According to letterboxing.org
there are 4648 boxes. According to geocaching.com there are almost
48,000! That to me is just too much. I know of many that have been
washed away in floods. They're no longer letterboxes, they're litter.
I'm not accusing anybody. I love the game myself and the physical
find and the thrill of seeing what someone's carved!
My plan is for creator of an "EcoScavenge" to provide a "Trading
Card" for the location with some basic info. The finder gets access
to the trading card with a password based on what they find. They can
print it off and put it in a binder or scrapbook.
I hope I haven't turned anybody off, but on! I'm not a marketer
but someone passionate about my beliefs. I still have letterboxes out
there myself. One day I might remove them but for now they are
staying.
If you or anyone else reading this is interested send mail to me
at karen@paperdance.com. I'll be starting a Y! Group soon for it and
will keep you informed of updates.
Thanks,
Karen aka "Nuthatch"
Team Saulsa
www.paperdance.com/letterboxing.php
www.ecoscavenger.com --> when it's up!
letterboxing community for a bit and just now saw your post. I've
been thinking along the same lines for a couple weeks. I've actually
started a web site to do it, and was coming back to see if anyone was
interested in joining me! I did a search on 'virtual' and saw your
email. Have you done anymore thinking about it?
The reason I'm doing this is I no longer feel comfortable hiding
man-made objects in natural places. According to letterboxing.org
there are 4648 boxes. According to geocaching.com there are almost
48,000! That to me is just too much. I know of many that have been
washed away in floods. They're no longer letterboxes, they're litter.
I'm not accusing anybody. I love the game myself and the physical
find and the thrill of seeing what someone's carved!
My plan is for creator of an "EcoScavenge" to provide a "Trading
Card" for the location with some basic info. The finder gets access
to the trading card with a password based on what they find. They can
print it off and put it in a binder or scrapbook.
I hope I haven't turned anybody off, but on! I'm not a marketer
but someone passionate about my beliefs. I still have letterboxes out
there myself. One day I might remove them but for now they are
staying.
If you or anyone else reading this is interested send mail to me
at karen@paperdance.com. I'll be starting a Y! Group soon for it and
will keep you informed of updates.
Thanks,
Karen aka "Nuthatch"
Team Saulsa
www.paperdance.com/letterboxing.php
www.ecoscavenger.com --> when it's up!
Idea for a different letterbox concept
From: Dog Scouts Troop (DogScouts@hotmail.com) |
Date: 2003-04-04 12:57:42 UTC-05:00
Interesting concept. You could even use handmade carvings that were stamped
onto the 'trading card' and scanned into the computer for download/printing.
Does Kinko's type places offer a "scan to disk" type service or would
participants all need scanners? Or would it be images already available on
the net?
A drawback I see though is... no chance exchanges with other 'boxers' (no
tell tale ink on their fingers :-).
Or is this going to be something totally unrelated to letterboxing, but
similar, like geocaching?
Open to new ideas that still allow me to find actual stamps in the woods,
because I love the thrill of the find!
Scoutdogs
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 05:25:45 -0000
> From: "ksaul27"
> Subject: Re: Idea for a different letterbox concept
>
> First of all, sorry for my slow response. I've been away from the
> letterboxing community for a bit and just now saw your post. I've
> been thinking along the same lines for a couple weeks. I've actually
> started a web site to do it, and was coming back to see if anyone was
> interested in joining me! I did a search on 'virtual' and saw your
> email. Have you done anymore thinking about it?
>
> The reason I'm doing this is I no longer feel comfortable hiding
> man-made objects in natural places. According to letterboxing.org
> there are 4648 boxes. According to geocaching.com there are almost
> 48,000! That to me is just too much. I know of many that have been
> washed away in floods. They're no longer letterboxes, they're litter.
> I'm not accusing anybody. I love the game myself and the physical
> find and the thrill of seeing what someone's carved!
>
> My plan is for creator of an "EcoScavenge" to provide a "Trading
> Card" for the location with some basic info. The finder gets access
> to the trading card with a password based on what they find. They can
> print it off and put it in a binder or scrapbook.
>
> I hope I haven't turned anybody off, but on! I'm not a marketer
> but someone passionate about my beliefs. I still have letterboxes out
> there myself. One day I might remove them but for now they are
> staying.
>
> If you or anyone else reading this is interested send mail to me
> at karen@paperdance.com. I'll be starting a Y! Group soon for it and
> will keep you informed of updates.
>
> Thanks,
> Karen aka "Nuthatch"
> Team Saulsa
> www.paperdance.com/letterboxing.php
> www.ecoscavenger.com --> when it's up!
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
onto the 'trading card' and scanned into the computer for download/printing.
Does Kinko's type places offer a "scan to disk" type service or would
participants all need scanners? Or would it be images already available on
the net?
A drawback I see though is... no chance exchanges with other 'boxers' (no
tell tale ink on their fingers :-).
Or is this going to be something totally unrelated to letterboxing, but
similar, like geocaching?
Open to new ideas that still allow me to find actual stamps in the woods,
because I love the thrill of the find!
Scoutdogs
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 05:25:45 -0000
> From: "ksaul27"
> Subject: Re: Idea for a different letterbox concept
>
> First of all, sorry for my slow response. I've been away from the
> letterboxing community for a bit and just now saw your post. I've
> been thinking along the same lines for a couple weeks. I've actually
> started a web site to do it, and was coming back to see if anyone was
> interested in joining me! I did a search on 'virtual' and saw your
> email. Have you done anymore thinking about it?
>
> The reason I'm doing this is I no longer feel comfortable hiding
> man-made objects in natural places. According to letterboxing.org
> there are 4648 boxes. According to geocaching.com there are almost
> 48,000! That to me is just too much. I know of many that have been
> washed away in floods. They're no longer letterboxes, they're litter.
> I'm not accusing anybody. I love the game myself and the physical
> find and the thrill of seeing what someone's carved!
>
> My plan is for creator of an "EcoScavenge" to provide a "Trading
> Card" for the location with some basic info. The finder gets access
> to the trading card with a password based on what they find. They can
> print it off and put it in a binder or scrapbook.
>
> I hope I haven't turned anybody off, but on! I'm not a marketer
> but someone passionate about my beliefs. I still have letterboxes out
> there myself. One day I might remove them but for now they are
> staying.
>
> If you or anyone else reading this is interested send mail to me
> at karen@paperdance.com. I'll be starting a Y! Group soon for it and
> will keep you informed of updates.
>
> Thanks,
> Karen aka "Nuthatch"
> Team Saulsa
> www.paperdance.com/letterboxing.php
> www.ecoscavenger.com --> when it's up!
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>